Evening everyone , just looking for some information. What exactly is the difference between nude and implied nude? I thought maybe with implied nude the model wasnt truly naked , perhaps very small skin coloured pants or something?
Any way the reason I ask is I have a photoshoot on Sunday and its implied nude , but I have seen the photographers examples off this type off work and they seem nude to me.
Whats the difference? Im just not sure what to expect. I have sent off for a bit more information from him but you are always very helpful here so I figured theres no harm in asking .

Thanks in advance

Cairan x

Hi Cairon

Implied nude as far as i am concerned , is thet the model really is nude but nothing can be seen , for example , completley nude with the models back to the camera .Same with implied topless , model is topless but her boobs cant be seen . I hope this is of help.

Thanks Iain thats off great help .. makes me slightly nervous as it will be the first time fully naked but hey , hopefully get some nice shots I can use in my portfolio

Regards

Carion,

If your nervous then i do not think your ready for implied or nude its a massive step because once the pictures have been taken and you regret it there is nothing you can do about the pictures being on the togs port and google etc picking them up around the net, so make sure first in your mind you are really ready for this..

Try and get some experience in fashion, lifestyle shoots first then once your comfortable in front of the camera and feel relaxed and if you still fancy doing implied then go for it, but remember to get references off any photographer first before a shoot or at least let someone know where the shoot will be held and never deviate from that place of shoot. Speak to the photographer on the phone also before a shoot make sure you know exactly what the shoot is and make sure you let him know your limits this will stop any awkwardness on shoot day if he asks you to do something you do not want to do.

Read this too its a very good article.

www.madcowmodels.co.uk/articles/Safety-in-Modeling.html

I sent you an email

Dawn
xxx

Hi Cairon

From a photographers perspective, I would agree with Dawn if you dont feel comfortable with doing a shoot, then you should not. If you are uneasy with the poses this will be reflected in the images.

I am suprised that you agreed to do a shoot without fully understanding what was required. I think it might be worthwhile talking to the person you have the shoot booked with ASAP. about what he/she is expecting from the shoot. If you are not happy then cancel this would atleast give them chance to find a replacement. This also would mean that you havent flaked on a shoot which wouldnt do your reputation much good.

This is a genral discriotion of Implied, "IMPLIED TOPLESS/NUDE - This is where you may be topless or nude but with no nipples or pubic hair showing. "

Good luck

Woolfe

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I hate the word "implied" and have never had the slightest notion to shoot it. I always think it's used by 2 types of people. Photographers who get a kick out of talking girls into getting their kit off when they don't really want to and models who want to squeeze a bit more money out of a photographer but don't want to do topless or nude.

Harsh, I know but seriously, what's it about?

It is as said by others already just what the term states.

artistic nude and nude is being naked showing and shot in away that clearly shows you are not wearing anything,
(this dose not include open leg and should not be mixed up with adult levels that's a totally different ball game)

Implied nude or topless is showing and shot in away that is implying and giving the feel that the model is nude or topless.


Implied nudes can be done in a number of ways some models will just throw off their clothes and pose in away that covers there body parts as they are not overly shy about being naked in front of the photographer.

were as some models will hold their bra in place and just lower the knicker line as to keep covered but to show enough skin to be implying nudity.

it really comes down to the type of images the Photographer is looking for is it just upper body... or is it full length as it can be easy to take an implied nude shot of the upper body but the model to be still wearing Jeans and very much covered on the lower half were as if its full length this is just not possible.

although can you really class a full body shot of a nude model as being Implied nude?
even if they have their back to the Lens? is that not just a Nude image?

what with it being very clear that even tho the model may have their back to us they are clearly nude! and there is no Implied about it.


as said It really comes down to what you are comfortable with doing, we would advise your fist nude or even implied nude should be done with a photographer you have already worked with and are comfortable with already.



be safe
the
Team Moxie Foxy

Sorry I dont think I explained my self properly before , I had asked what would be expected off me and he linked me to some example photos , I think they look very artsy and decided I would like to take part in the shoot , but as the models are naked I just wanted to know the difference in naked and implied nude - I wouldn't agree to a shoot when I didnt know what I was letting my self in for so to speak

With regards the feeling nervous thank you for all t
Concern , I did explain to the photographer and he said we can do a few practice shots first , Ive just never done that type off thing before but the photos are beautiful and Im sure ill be fine after the first couple off shots when I get into the swing off things.
The man that will be doing the shoot is one off very very few local photographers I feel really privileged to be getting to work with him.


Thanks everyone for the replies I really appreciate it! I noticed on another forum a lot off people seem to find 'implied' nude a bit off a grey area.

Always so kind and helpful on her , kind regards

Cairan

I did work with one model on an "implied shoot" and it was hilarous. She did strip naked but then used one hand to cover down below and one to cover her boobs and then hoped across the studio and into place and then go into the pose.

The only part off her anatomy that either myself or her chaperone saw was her bum. Now that is how to do an implied shoot.

I know this may upset a few togs, if a tog refuses a chaperone then my advice would be to avoid. I have had a few chaperoned shoots and never had any problems, in fact most of them have been very helpful in holding reflectors and other bits of kit.

Les

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I don't know why there should be any confusion about "Implied Nude", is seems quite obvious to me.
It is any pose/set where to the viewer the model is nude, however, due to the placement of a prop or part of the set...there are parts of the model that are not visible to the viewer (usually the sexual bits, but not necessarily).

Observation for "Woolfe".... what if the model does not have pubic hair (shaved)...lol

As for the comment from Les D: "I know this may upset a few togs, if a tog refuses a chaperone then my advice would be to avoid".

I do not see the necessity for this comment, but i will add... I do NOT accept chaperones, if that puts a model off working with me... so be it, there are lots of models happy to work with me without bringing the B/G friend.

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LesD:- I know this may upset a few togs, if a tog refuses a chaperone then my advice would be to avoid.


Oh dear!!

I utterly agree about not bring the boy / girlfriend.

All the chaperones I have met have been friends not b/g friend, and pretty much stood or sat there and not said a word.

Incidentally I would not expect a model who has been around for a while to bring anyone, but someone doing there first shoot, especially nude then so be it.

Les

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That's your preference Les, it's different from telling models to avoid people who do not have the same preference.

I think Les was more pointing to if a photographer point blank " refuses a chaperone"

it is all down to preferences of the of the individuals involved if its the First time your shooting with a model or photographer on that level.

no honest Photographer will Refuse a chaperone! they May meet with them and then point them to the door and say come back in 2 hours when we have finished shooting or lay down some very strict rules if they stay within the studio or even the shoot area, but they will never refuse the presence of one,

unless you know a studio or Photographer you should take some with you a good chaperone is always someone that you are comfortable with seeing you doing your modelling work and someone who will not Distract you in the shoot or the photographer they are there to over see your safety not to tell the photographer their job.

most photographers have a No chaperone on set Rule for these reasons.

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Moxie, isn't showing them the door refusing the presence of one?

I have a simple rule regarding chaperones. Once the shoot starts they leave. No exceptions.

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As far as I am concerned the definitions are purely describing the final image an not describing the actual state of the model during the shoot. For instance, you could actually imply that someone is topless from a low cut head and shoulder shot with the model fully clothed or a common impled nude scenario is with the model draped in a sheet. In that latter scenario the model could be completely naked, covered in bits of tape, wearing underwear etc. and so long as it is not visible it should make no difference to the photographer and is purely up to the discretion of the model.

So the communication should be detailed between the photographer and the model so that it is known exactly what is expected for the final image and it is then for the model to decide firstly if they are happy with that image and secondly what their costume options are to achieve that image and that they are comfortable with.

I would also always agree with the advice of start slow and certainly never be afraid of asking "why?" when something is suggested to you. Until you've done some modelling you'll never know if you actually like it or not and if it is something that you would want to do long term. You never know you may hate it. As people often say once something is on the internet it is there to stay so always take the time to think things through and work out what you are comfortable with and not what you feel is expected of you.

With regard to chaperones I usually hire a studio which is in an industrial estate type building which has 3 rooms in it. A toilet, a kitchen and the studio. As a result when I hire it the owner is there when I turn up, goes away for the duration of the shoot and then comes back at the end otherwise he would just be sitting in the corner of the studio for the whole shoot which I'm sure would be a bit strange for everyone involved.

Now in that scenario I would be quite happy for someone to turn up at the start, say hello's etc. but I wouldn't be happy having someone hanging around and getting bored as it is a studio filled with someone elses expensive equipment and usually has a lot of work in progress prints etc. lying around all of which I would be responsible for as I had hired the studio. You can imagine how paranoid I would get every time I turned around to take a shot thinking have they just touched that picture and left a grubby fingerprint on it etc. so the never-ending chaperone argument is not always as black and white as some people often make out.

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I think that it is a bad sign of a photographer who refuses anyone to have a chaperone on a shoot, as it will often make a model (especially one who is new to modelling)uncomfortable and it will show in the images. I know that some are against having someone other than the model actually present while shooting and I can understand that, but I am all for anything that helps put the model at ease.

I did a shoot with a model last year who was insistent that she wanted nude and implied nude images for her portfolio and her boyfriend was present during the shoot. He was very supportive and actually helped out with holding props and lights. This was her first shoot semi-nude ever and her nerves just evaporated.

As for implied nude? Every shoot that I have been on were either myself, or the model, has wished implied nudity; the model has actually been naked. The use of props, camera angles, etc have disguised the fact and given the more than meets the eye aspect to the image (at least I hope). So if that is what you are worried about Cairan I would suggest that you take things at your own pace and go slowly. If you are not comfortable being nude in front of a stranger but feel that you would be okay being topless, then talk things over beforehand and go from there. If the photographer is a professional then they will understand your nervousness and honour your wishes. If it isn't working for you then perhaps it isn't for you, as it isn't for everyone!
Marc

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Hope SunnyWigan doesn't mind but I think the statement "If the photographer is a professional" should read "If the photographer is professional"

Whether someone is an amateur or a professional should make no difference to the professionalism with which they treat a model.

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Sorry for the incorrect phrasing of my post there PG but I am dyslexic and 90% of my posts are written on the forum itself, rather than word were they can be checked, but no offence taken as I feel you understood my statement anyway.

Quoting clickgotcha from post 15

not in the context that we were describing much the same as to you requesting them Once the shoot starts they leave with No exceptions is not refusing one at all.

but even some of the high end pro models have some form of chaperone on shoots with them.

if you trust and know the Photographer then there is not the need to have someone sitting in on the shoot but

if its a good honest Photographer and really want to work with a model and the model says that they will only work with you if their chaperone can sit in on the shoot as its the first time doing a shoot with that Photographer then many photographers will be ok with it knowing that the model will be more relaxed in the shoot!

its not something every photographer will do we know but if they really want to gain the models trust and to have that model in the studio they will work around having a chaperone in the room.

Exactly what I meant.

The chaperone dosen't need to be in the studio.

I was did a shoot and the model brought her mum, who sat in the lounge area and not in the studio.

Some models feel more comfortable with someone close by, not necessarily in the studio.

Les

Premium

This Chaperone debate has been done to death a thousand times over on every related website/forum, there is no single answer..only opinions.... and everyone has one of those.
As for the suggestion that, any photographer who will not work with chaperone's is not professional or trust worthy, is an insult to every photographer... Professional or Amateur.

If i meet a model for a chat before a shoot, they are welcome to bring a friend.
I have no problem with a model arriving for a shoot and being collected after a shoot by a friend.
However, in general... i will not have a "Chaperone" on set or in the studio during a shoot.

Does that make me "Unprofessional", or a risk to Models?

I would say that, the whole question is blown up out of all proportion to reality.... I have only had one request from a model to bring a friend to a shoot in past 37 shoots.
On that occasion, the shoot was split into two parts between "Studio" and "Location"... I allowed the presence of the friend on the "Location" shoot (It involved Nudity in a semi-public place), so he was an extra pair of eyes and added to the security.
However, he was sent for a walk round the town centre for the duration of the studio shoot, this was acceptable by all concerned.

In my past life i have hired many models through Agencies for commercial work, and never have they brought a "Chaperone" or requested one to be present, even when there were no MUA/Stylist attending.

I stand by my practice... unless there is a very good reason (Security/Safety issue at a location), "NO Chaperone's allowed during a shoot".
It is the Models decision to accept these terms or not, fortunately for me... this has never been an issue.

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If a model is concerned over safety issues with a photographer.... do your homework.
Ask yourself;
Is the photographer who s/he says they are... Check private address, Home/office phone, personal phone (mobile).
Do they have a real website (not just Facebook) and links to samples of their work and references?
All this is readily available and checkable without leaving your seat/home, use Google or similar.
Are they members of any commercial/trade group or reputable marketing media?

Once basic checks have proven legit, give these details and the details of the shoot (times, locations..etc) to a trusted friend.
Arrange to make occasional/discrete phone calls to your friend to confirm your safety...

Use your intelligence....

For me... On my website i display my full address, Phone numbers, links to other sites with references and samples of my work (including "Madcows").
Last time i checked on "Google".... search for "Mannering Media"= 227,000 results, search for "Ian Mannering, Telford"= 215,000 results.

Rant over... I hope.

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Guess we must have a different version of google.

"Mannering Media" = About 1,950 results
"Ian Mannering, Telford" = 5 results

Unless you are searching without the inverted commas but the point is still a valid one.

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Quoting PGPhotographic from post 24

Yes i did the search not including the "Quote", but as you say... it is still a valid point and a simple guide for safety to follow.

Quoting Manneringmedia from post 22

Mannering Media

""As for the suggestion that, any photographer who will not work with chaperone's is not professional or trust worthy, is an insult to every photographer... Professional or Amateur""

I do not Think anyone here was talking about Photographers that choose not to let a Chaperone on the set during the shoot.
But more with anyone that "Point blank refuses a model even brings one along at all"

As we have said in our other post many Photographers will have strict rules about chaperone's being on the set when the shoot starts mostly due to the fact that many do not understand what a Chaperone is and end up making the shoot messy as new models will always look to a Chaperone for approval because the chaperone is giving posing advice Comments like "pout more" and "think like kate moss" or as some people do they stand over the photographer telling them how to do there Job.

as you have said Mannering it is really only opinions, everyone is diffident but I think every one here would agree that Safety is always top of the list.

as you say Mannering some good advice is to do your research.

as for using Goggle to search and find out if someone is what they say they are Yes this is a very good way of looking up info it is a basic check you should always Follow these up seeing 200,000 results looks good but with the world wide web that could be achieved within 48 hours a Free hosted website, some basic profiles here and there and running some very cheap add's

but a valid point all the same.

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Quote from Moxie Foxy: as for using Goggle to search and find out if someone is what they say they are Yes this is a very good way of looking up info it is a basic check you should always Follow these up seeing 200,000 results looks good but with the world wide web that could be achieved within 48 hours a Free hosted website, some basic profiles here and there and running some very cheap add's

**************
The trick is... not just search for results on "Google", but to follow them up... see where they lead, how far back in time do they reach (a Week, Month, Year...10 years).
Do they have a Website... other than "Facebook or free", although if the details contained on these sites is verifiable..those are fine too.... what information is on them, can you verify the information...

If you cannot verify that the Photographer and his details are genuine....If website links are dead ends....If they have no verifiable history.... take further, more detailed steps to check there validity.... proceed with caution.

A little common sense and effort at the outset is well worth it, and can save a great deal of anguish and disappointment.... but more importantly it is basic safety procedures.

TopMember

Well that went off topic !!!

Premium

I do apologise to the OP... the topic relating to Model Safety has drifted away from the original thread.
These issues should be the subject of a different thread dedicated to Model Safety... maybe James could create a thread about safety issues and copy theses comments over.