TopMember

So i had seen an advert online for a amateur model looking for a photographer to take some photos. It mentioned no payment etc.. so i approached the model and explained im a amateur photographer looking to build my own portfolio and thought it would be good to work something out (Along them lines) And explained i was offering TFCD and asked if it was paid work she wanted.

I got a reply back saying she was looking for paid work and she liked the idea of me offering images on a CD as other payment. Then she came out with I have had a offer from a guy who is willing to do me my own website and the photoshoot you mentioned so if you can do the same then i would consider .

I felt like i was bidding on the chance to get a shoot with this model. I happily replied with i could match that as i build websites, and have my own server etc.. but was no longer interested. Any other model would try get many photo shoots to build a portfolio. But it seemed this model was looking for the best offer.

As amateur photographer i do find it harder to find models willing to work with a amateur and accept TFCD from such person. But i don't have money to pay model fee's for a hobby which im just getting in to. Some may say "Oh you need to put money in" No not really.

Premium

Hey

Dont give up hope there are Models out there that are willing to work on TF base if they feel you or your ideas will bring something to there portfolio,

Also models out there that understand that everyone has to start somewhere and so are willing to take the chance and look on it as more experience for them or even away of trying out some of there own ideas for poses and such without being on the clock of a Pro photographer.


Some models get good paid work and so dont have the need to work with amateur level photographers
and we all totally Understand this.


But Sadly and "fingers crossed I dont get to many hate mails for this one"

But

There are a number of models that know there are So many "guys with cameras" out there that are happy and willing to pay to get models naked so they can snap away with no real intrest other than getting nude pic's

That some models say why do TF work (regardless of levels) when they can get paid!


(Please dont hate me iz only sayin)

Best wishes
James.

TopMember

I totally understand what your saying James so need to panic. I am not one of these "Guys with a camera" yer I may just have a camera this is only because I plan to get some experience before going the whole 9 yards. Ive built myself a website (Time and effort) and have paid money out for business cards.

I just hope im not being labelled a "Guy with a camera" when I say im only a amateur and offering TFCD. But I was lucky enough to have my first shoot with a amateur also. And we have become friends.

I suppose its one of them "Finding the right girl" I guess.

Premium

Its one of those things and the more shoots you do even if its with one model then the more that will come from it.

Well to be fair lee it all depends. You can't expect a model to do a TFP/TFCD shoot, as models have a right to charge same as a photographer does, but both parties need to be clear from the off and that seems to have failed on her part in this case.

I'm looking to move from events and DJ portfolio work to models. I've also been looking for TFP/TFCD models, but not had a lot of luck. But I run my own business and have a few web projects on the go, so haven't has a lot of time this year to organise a shoot. Although I do shoot regularly at events and a radio show I produce locally (see flickr stream).

The tendency with some models is when they get to a set level of demand and paid work comes in, they stop doing TFP unless it is a photographer they want to work with, and that is because they like the photographers existing work. This means it is difficult for amateurs to secure models.

I have heard that there are more models on model mayhem doing TFP (sorry for mentioning a rival James), but failing that you will have to pay I'm afraid. Another option though is to ask friends. It doesn't have to be glammer or nude shoot, just enough to build a portfolio, which will in turn build trust and experience hopefully putting you in a better position as a photographer.

Good luck my friend.

I also agree with James (happens to be a good mate), there is a lot of GWC's out there, and even though you're not one, models do get a little weary (spell checked in google) of them, and quite rightly so.

I modelled for James (my profile pic is one of his) and no doubt I will get him to do the same for me, so I can try out some lighting techniques. It's just another way to build up a portfolio.

Another thing that helped me is offering to do free shoots. Some of my DJ portfolio shoots are freebies I did for friends, and to build experience. Another is nightclub events, something I've been doing since 2003. It all helps.

Premium

Hi Leigh,
In the instance of the model you mention, it is probably more likely that she has allowed herself to concentrate on that particular offer, and failed to realise that she will require more than one shoot to build a reasonable portfolio.....Forget, and move on.

There is no shortage of models (beginners, very experienced and Pro's) that are willing to do TF* shoots, just persevere and look for a niche that you can offer something of interest... not JUST the typical Glamour/Nude stuff, that almost every other photographer is offering.

One of the biggest and most damaging trends for photographers who ply their trade on the Internet, is this concept of offering FREE shoots.
When photographers offer to shoot for !!!FREE!!!.... WTF

My time has value, My equipment has value, My experience has value, My skill (in photography/Photoshop) has value, My materials (Printing, Blank CD/DVD, Electricity) has value, My travel expenses have value.

TFP/TFCD/TF* IS NOT FREE.... it is a fair exchange of talent/skill and costs.

Fortunately, there are many Models out there who feel the same, and some very experienced models WILL work with less experienced photographers on a TF* basis.
They have a level mentality to the Internet Photographer/Model relationship, they do understand that members on these websites/forums (Photographers and Models) will never make it to the top in this media and that the best most can hope for is a meagre part time income or supplement to a regular job.
Or a very short lifespan working full time in this field.

There are a great number of Photographers and Models that have big dreams of fame and fortune in this field.
Most come to realise their chances are really minute at a very early stage, and either accept reality or drop off the scene after a very short time.

Keep going, look for that unique/personal selling point.
You may not get to shoot with a new model every day of the year, but you will find plenty of models willing to collaborate with you.

Good luck, and best wishes for 2012.

Hi Leigh,
Seems this is becoming a more regular occurence,particularly amongst new and younger model,several, not all I hasten to add that I have seen regularly,as very much newcomer/novice models are very keen to jump on the paid shoots only train.With the economy as it is,paid shoots may well start to decline, as many part time photogrpahers and hobbyists simply won't have the funds available to finance what essentially is a pastime beyond the 9 till 5.
I have recently been put onto a website which caters exclusively for tfp/tfcd, If you want the website details,drop me a line by all means, happy to send you the details.
I have found myself in a similiar situation so I know where you're coming from on this one.Some good advice from the previous responses and I'm sure you'll get something going in 2012,
Regards Wayne.

TopMember

Thanks for replies there. I guess its just one of them things really you get good and in everything. Im not going to put it off but carry on. I do have some models on here who want to work with me but its now to close to xmas so next year will be the year for me. I guess its more time to arrange shoots and get ideas going.

Lee....
i hope i dont get shot for this....
this is a modelling site-
so why as a profile pic do you have a duck showing.
the duck image is very good----
but this site is for models.


find a nice image to use for your avatar.
storm

TopMember

I never really thought about changing it. When I joined I didn't have any modelling pictures. But there I have changed it :P

Well done....
sorry for sounding a bit abrupt---
im sure i will get told off tho by some one...

much better avatar now.

TopMember

No its totally fine. Could be why I aint been approached by many haha.

To be fair, if that profile pic wasn't taken by Lee, then it could also be seen as misleading, so the duck would've been better if that is his picture, unless he uses a picture of himself, as I have which was taken by Bluephin.

People will judge you based on your profile picture, if it is one you shot. Hence why I would never recommend a self-shot camera phone picture.

TopMember

The duck picture is mine, so is the pictures on my profile of that model. And I honestly own two ducks haha.

TopMember

Update from this model which has shocked me tbf. hi lee as im in need of some photos yes i can do it it will help you and me no payment and just photos on cd for me have you got a place to do them a studio . First thing WOW! really? No chance. I stand when i say being "Used". I have told her no chance. I had a feeling she would come back to me cause she would need more pictures.

Please don't judge me and say "But its a TFCD or experience". Not when the model prats you about its not.

No I say fair play Lee. If she messed you around once, chances are it'll happen again and you don't need that. Good call.

Premium

I don't see why your taking this so personally Lee , seems to me like she is newish and probably being prompted by boyfriend /friends etc who don't know the protocol.
Offer to shoot TFCD at a location of your choice for a set time limit shooting your ideas /levels etc ,if she agrees what do you have to lose ?.

This could turn out to be one of the best shoots you ever do so my take on it is "go for it" what can you lose ? a couple of hours max .

Premium

My advice is accept the models new offer and arrange to meet her and take photographs.

Be nice to everybody. Expect to be messed around and let down and you won't be diappointed.

SEXY, the model you have all of your photos of on your portfolio, and I corresponded in November for a shoot on Dec 7th and she cancelled at 21.30 the night before! as did 2 others in Birmingham for that day. My money and time wasted. So count your blessings that you got those shots of her.

TopMember

Im not taking it personally i just hate the fact she thinks she can do what she likes. But sorry im not a bloke who can be pushed around. I see it as both parties need to trust each other and agree terms set.

And retrotog i guess im am lucky, but i cant say anything ti why she didnt wana do it.

I created this topic to get other peoples views on models who think they can set the terms when it should be both parties etc.. Its like going to a bank for a loan of £1000 and asked to pay £1500 back then asked later on to pay more. You just wouldnt do it.

It seems like in this case the model has come to her senses. I would do the shoot, TFCD as she offered. You really have nothing to lose and could gain some good pics and with every shoot comes experience.

If I feel a model is messing me around I just walk away from it. There are, as they say, plenty more ducks on the pond...

Paul

I never ever cancel a shoot without a good reason modeling is what i do as my job and cant afford to lose work.please dont let this be off putting if you want to work with me please get in touch tara x

Premium

Honestly Lee its your call,

if you go for it as Paul and others have said here you have nothing to lose, she has probably was wow'ed by the guys offer to the website and all that and thought its a way to go now realising it was probably an offer that was "TO GOOD TO BE TRUE" and would take her to a level on the shoot she didnt want to go.

she knows your only intrested in TF and so she has taken a big step to come back to you and make the new offer to take up your TF shoot with no hiden BS.

Quoting sexy from post 22

Sexy, Tara don't worry too much, Sometimes we all have to Cancel last minute and for very good reason!

Its better to be told last minute "as in the night before" if thats all the notice you have yourself
than to be waiting around for a No show and a model that then fails to even get back to you with a Sorry when you try to contact them to where they are! lol

although its always best to give as much notice as you can if things have to change it I would always try to gibe a minimum 48 hours at least 24 hours notice but sometimes like kids falling sick at school and such mean you we can not.


and on a plus side of a cancellation if its a paid shoot it can always be set up again for a later date and at with a deal of a TF shoot or reduced rate shoot :P



Best wishes
James.

TopMember

When i told her i wasn't interested she replied back within 2mins of me sending the email and she said she had received offers from other togs.

I see no loss in declining the new offer as i wasn't going to show im going to be messed about.

Thanks for all the replies this topic has received.

Thank you james x

Premium

Your welcome

TopMember

I'm lucky in I've never had a model cancel on me. Getting some to reply to emails is a whole different thread

Bless ya Lee, i know you've approached me and asked if id like to do TFCD Fair play to you. I will be doing the same when i get old and wrinkley and can no Longer Model :P haha. I honestly hope you do find some decent models to shoot. Just don't go for the ones that arent really photogenic. Theres 10000000s of girls that dream of becoming a model ( and it aint all what its cracked up to be either) just approach a pretty woman on facebook social networking sites. Be completely honest with them even amateur models.
If you just send a message saying hey, im interested in doing a TFCD shoot? The alarm bells are gonna start ringing oh ohhh GWC. Why not look into group shoots at local studios. Theres always a gorgeous established model at westgate,greengate,arianne, saracen costing something like £30 per person. Each tog taking in turns. EKD, jen morgan , brook lee , keli smith you name it there super fit and always about. You can talk to other photographers , mimic what they do. Learn and watch people. Anyway i wish i could help but im absolutely swamped in adult work and i was looking for TFCD for website and commercial purposes and even syndication for publishing. You seem like a really lovely genuine bloke and i hope you get more shoots from it .

All the best everyone.

Kaylaa xx

TopMember

Aww kaylaa thats a really nice reply and glad you did. But i totally agree with what you said, im not a person to hide what i do or think etc.. I wouldnt dream of mailing a random girl on facebook and asking to do a shoot. Id be nervous lol. I approched a girl i see daily at work and swap a few words like hello and what not. So i explained her that i was a newbie an blah blah and gave her my bussines card for photography and she said she would love a snow shoot when we got some. Then we broke out into a chat about things about photography etc.. and ahe felt honored to be asked.

So overall great out come lol.

Great to hear Darling, Well done. We should hopefully see some more stuff soon,